Meeting Minutes 2/05/12

Meeting Minutes for Alternative Banking working group meeting February fifth , 2012.

Disclaimer: no idea expressed in meeting minutes have been approved by consensus by either the New York City General Assembly or the Alternative Banking Working group.

Greek Debt & Germany

1.Current situation in Germany & Greece – broad issues: since the EU, and the housing bubble, there were divides growing between central and peripheral economies and levels of govt debt; Greece used fancy products from Goldman to disguise debt; but then Greece couldn’t make interest payments; since that time there’s been a dance between coordinated EU/US efforts with IMF and central banks for short term rescue and longterm reform. The other side has been market pressure to cash the whole thing and cash out against

2.Monster treaty restricted how much debt as a percentage of GDP; that was repeatedly broken by everyone including Germany; all govts went into massive deficits in the wake of crisis; that pushed a manageable situation into crisis; Eurobanks are big bond holders of peripheral companies, so that’s how everyone’s interconnected – who owes what to who?

3.Rooted in German reunification in 1989 to refloat E.German economy – EU was brought into “free trade” – but tariffs as indirect taxation are always there; German in free trade zone to export into the other EU companies;

4.Who bought credit default swaps betting against Greece? Will bondholders take a hit?

5.Is this use of the European central bank the same as what the IMF and World Bank have done in the past on behalf of US corporate interests?

6.Who is going to benefit? The Greek politicians? The Greek people? The Germans? The US? What are the different incentives of each group?

7.Europe does not have a single backstop bank that’s capable of bailing out a state or a banking system. Should the Euro central bank (ECB) serve that function? Should the IMF serve that function?

8.There’s a battle going on right now… the ECB/the IMF/ The Greeks/ The Germans/

9.Money from sovereign states to banks; if they default that line of money gets cut off, who suffers? Greece is like the banking sector in the US? How are those losses distributed? The govt’s bailout went to the banks – why not to the homeowner’s who paid off their loan?

10.Private debts are transferred to the public through the governments and the bank; debt is transferred to the population.

11.Germany is printing deutsche marks (according to a former bush advisor )

12.Debt is an important concept behind a lot of what’s going on – extending the analogy to the US. There were ideas and laws around the way debt was supposed to work, but didn’t.

13.Over the entrance of Moody’s was a sign : “Credit: Man’s Confidence in Man”

14.Redefining debt as whatever people in power want it to be…

15.Who’s really going to profit from an asset selloff? Before Greece was going to auction its assets they had a big meeting in London of potential buyers of the infrastructure, but no one wanted it. Driven by religion with how you deal with debtors

16.A tactic used in commercial war – who are the aggressors and who are the targets? Greece is a target; Germany is an aggressor. Deriding Greece’s infrastructure, is to devalue it, maybe, but then they’re not even buying it

17.Is this a manufactured crisis? (for Germany’s profit?) Or, is there a global financial system that was severely weakened by the first crisis, and now there are no clear winners in this next bubble. The assumption that the EU is an oppressive system should be a question

18.Is this a manufactured crisis?

19.If it was originally manufactured, it’s not now. The obvious winners are very much at risk – the Germans are very much at risk now. Their entire economy is at risk

20.Greeks don’t pay taxes; Greeks have thick social spending. So it wasn’t a manufactured crisis

21.Was Greece is great shape before they were part of the Euro zone?

22.The EU and the Euro were proposed at Mastricht; this is a crafted/contrived crisis – should the EU have existed? Difference between sovereign nations; All states relinquished their tarrifs to join EU, and Greeks were already not paying individual taxation…

23.Wary of national character explanations;

24.Question: Under Basel II bank regulations counts sovereign debt as no risk – so banks stocked up on sovereign debt

25.Austerity and self-determination of peripheral economies at risk; liquidity in credit may be at risk too

26.People being prisoners to bad ideology – Basal II looks pernicious, but originally came from risk modeling concepts from the private sector that were codified and formulated into public

27.Notion that Europe is locked into austerity, despite evidence that this never works. But it’s an article of religion that the debtors are bad and they have to be punished

28.The ECB has created the LTRO, providing banks with very big loans. This will forestall a near-term liquidity crisis.

29.Not so easy to take a banker’s perspective hat off…

30.The whole thing about tax evasion is this religious blame-the-debtor; is Greece ahead of the curve? Their simpler life…

31.Why so Eurocentric in the crisis issue? Where did it start? Euro central bank giving out money? Fed giving out money?

Top 10 Legislative Demands

1.To what extent should there be tax issues in here? (financial reform)

2.Monetary reforms are about the federal reserve

3.We can use taxes to control banks – transaction tax; tax on interest income; state taxes and federal taxes – if they engage in municipal investing they enjoy tax breaks; using tax as a form of discipline;

4.Social security caps at 108,000 – of you earn more than that you don’t pay more into social security; the amount you get out is also capped. Both the input and the output are capped at 108,000. This one is not related to finance. Is there a direct nexus to banking or finance? Is this an alternative banking issue.

5. 2 lists – one that is SPECIFIC to alternative banking; one that has things like taxes, etc.

6.Transaction tax or fee – fraction of a penny per trade tax ; this is about stock and bond trading, directly related to finance. Would put a big damper on short term speculative trading and a big revenue. (Would kill high frequency trading)  Is HFT net good or net bad?

7.Carried interest tax – tax that applies to fund managers. Regular bankers should be furious because they pay 35% Private equity pays at 15%. It’s a loophole. Hedge fund managers paid 2% + 20% profits. Hedge fund managers claim that their salaries are capital gains. So they don’t pay income tax. The RICHEST GROUP OF AMERICANS HAS AVOIDED PAYING INCOME TAX

8.Carried income is exempt from NYC tax

9.Carried interest incentivizes one type of financial activity over another. Incentivizes hedging over commercial banking.

10.Since Glass-Steagall our banking system is a mixed system of investment and commercial banking

11.A tremendous difference between investment banking – speculative, underwrite and trade securities; prvate equity is private capital used to fund early or middle stage enterprises. Does not use leverage. That money is institutional. All private. But M&A structured as private equity.

12.Which of these activities carry a systemic risk to the entire banking system?

13.Legislation has been eroded to allow too big to fail.

14.Always those entities that are decent; but there are also those that are not following the rules; those are the ones we’re looking for.

15.Should we address capital gains and dividend taxes? Corporations don’t have a different rate between capital gains and earned income. Only individuals. (Statutory tax rate is 35%)

16.We want to encourage long term investment. We should have a graduated capital gains tax where if you’re investing longterm in a company/stakeholder – we should incentivize longterm investment. (Something like this already exists now)

17.Most investment is financed internally in non-financial corporations; buybacks have exceeded stock. Stock market has been draining capital, not raising it

18.15% rate on capital gains – numbers are unequivocal that the vast majority of that tax break goes to the top 1%. In the 99% they own them in 401ks. There’s NO advantage to the majority. ELIMINATE the advantage of capital gains. (But it’s an occupy question…) Tax capital gains at the regular rate

19.It’s hard to separate these issues. We can be sector-focused in our efforts, but these things are interconnected.

20.ISDA bank – interest and swap dealers association; the derivatives-trading bank; the big financial institutions determine who can enjoy the advantages of the tax system

21.Add capital gains to the list. This includes the dividend tax. (Get rid of capital gain/dividend tax advantage)

22. 401k – no tax on receipt of any income until distributed; when distributed its all regular income

23.Hedge funds invest pension funds; hedge funds are a flow-through entity – they don’t pay any taxes at all. Their owners pay taxes. Hedge funds are never a corporation; they’re always partnerships. It’s in the same class as a foundation, a college endowment, etc. But if they go public (Carlysle, etc.) then they will pay taxes, capital gains WILL NOT effect small business owners; the portion of the benefit is SCRAPS to everyone else. Even more so the top 10% of the top 1%


One thought on “Meeting Minutes 2/05/12

  1. To fix banking… it must be re-organized to change what was established in 1933 with the National Banking ACT.. which created this mess.

    See –>

    which reads…

    (NOTE: When I speak of banks, I mean the small bank which lends to the local people, and lends to local businesses, and serves an actual function in our society.
    I am not speaking of the 5 major investment firms, which are involved in banking, the ones deregulated by President Clinton in 1999, and which have recently taken over the industry.
    Those commercial investment firms, called banks, should not recieve any of the benefits of this New Deal, except in concern to their lending to non- bank related firms, because they invest at risk, for gain, and no public money can go to insure risks taken by private firms for their own gain, and any firm which is deamed as too big to fail, must be broken down, if it does fail.)

    Banks and Lending and Credit Cards :

    1) Bankers are not evil.
    While there are many who would suggest all Bankers should be lined up against a wall and shot in the face… I am not one of them.
    I, instead, realize that Bankers are not the problem, and that it is the structure of our banking system, and that one of the solutions to our nations and world’s problems is to redesign that banking system nation wide, and even world wide, and provide it with the clear benefits and means to do much more than it presently can do, under the misguided present methods. I present new methods, which can solve for these limits and problems.

    2) A new deal for 2012.
    I present a New Deal for 2012, to implement as a way to solve for the problems and limits of the New Deal of 1933.
    The fundamentals of which include….
    a) Amending the National Banking act of 1933, and, the Federal Reserve act of 1913. Establishing the Federal Reserve as a non-profit part of the U.S. treasury, and creating a new form of Faith based (fiat like) currency, based on future obtainable values of commodities, such as minerals, and energy. As described here => CURRENCY : THE MONEY SYSTEM
    Where by the Federal Reserve becomes a non-profit, and fitting to the terms as presented here.
    b) Amending the Trading With The Enemies ACT of 1917, to insure that Americans are never considered Enemies under it. And yet, we can still allow the Federal Government to have some regulatory powers over people when doing business, but it must be by a Constitutional Amendment, granting that power.

    c) Amending the U.S. Constitution to allow the Federal government to continue to have and use several specific powers, which can be agreed upon, and which are a benefit to the American people. Such as regulating various businesses and Corporations, and providing for Social Security and Medicare etc, and possibly Health care itself, or regulatory powers over the Health Care industry.

    d) Ending all the declared states of emergency and the constant use of Emergency War Powers, to run our government, as such is completely wrong, and unnecessary, and unconstitutional.

    e) Pulling out of the U.N. treaty of 1945, and demanding it be re-written to maintain our nations sovereignty, and so, form a more perfect union of free nation states, all with free sovereign people.

    f) Presenting the world, via the U.N. a New Deal for the entire world, which will allow human kind to end all world poverty, and expand the free market in doing so, and do all of it, via a new national and international banking system, where this global plan, is one in the same with the national plan presented here. The global plan would be..=>A message for all International Bankers, and investors of the Federal Reserve, World Bank, and IMF
    g) Setting national and global standards for the limits of banking, and it’s profit schemes, so as to set the people free of the total dominance of banking interests, and at the same time, expanding the market for all banks to profit off of commercial interests, in benefit to the people and business world. And using new Constitution based, and U.N. treaty based methods to expand the world economy.

    3) People and Persons and The National Banking act of 1933.
    Under my proposed changes, the Federal Reserve would become a non-profit part of the U.S. treasury and begin using a new form of FAITH based Treasury certificates, which would represent the future obtainable values of minerals and energy derived from large scale projects in mining and energy created and run by the Federal government to provide the assurance for that FAITH. Thus creating a FAITH potential, and since it is all based on real commodities which can be considered as being in perfect storage, the U.S. Treasury could then, pay off the national debt, and re-value all U.S. Dollars in circulation, and begin to operate in the black, instead of in bankruptcy as it has done since 1933.
    As a non-profit, the Federal Reserve can still use fractional banking with all the smaller banks as franchises, but can in this way offer many benefits to the People and those Banks, such as a zero interest rate, and can in most cases remove the RISK involved in lending, by allowing for more options for those lenders (banks). Such as…

    a) First the Banks must recognize that as they are franchises of the Federal Reserve which would then be part of the U.S. Treasury, and that since that U.S. Treasury belongs to the American People, as part of our government, that they exist, to serve the People, and that in this case, NO USURY LENDING IS ALLOWED CONCERNING LOANS TO THE HUMAN PEOPLE.
    In other words, banks would be required to lend to the People, without interest, and can only charge fees, and assess penalties, but no more interest based profits, and this is done, by the fact that the currency itself would no longer be debt and fiat finance based, but instead FAITH based on real commodity values, and by removing the debt risk, on the part of the local bank, and allowing the bank to middleman the loan and process it for a set fee to offset its overhead in doing so, but nothing more. And the Federal Reserve would bear all the risk concerning loans to the People themselves, but the same rules would apply concerning restrictions on lending based on the ability to pay, and credit history and whether the loan is to be secured by some asset to be purchased, such as a Home or Car, BUT, these personal loans to the People, could NOT be used FOR RUNNING OR STARTING A BUSINESS. And these forms of personal loans to the People, could not be sold, or purchased by investors, as they are made at zero interest to the actual People, who are the actual owners of the Federal Reserve that made the loan.

    b) Lending at interest however would be allowed for Businesses and for Corporations, WHO ARE NOT PEOPLE, BUT ARE FICTIONAL PERSONS, who by law, would not be allowed to use the funds derived from a private loan granted to one of the People, and doing so would be considered as a banking fraud crime.
    The benefit here, is found in that since the Federal Reserve is a non-profit it can lend to Banks, to lend to Business and corporations at near ZERO interest, and all if not most of the interest gains would belong to the lending bank, which could then offer better rates, and have more flexibility to lend. (And almost unlimited funds to do so!)
    Also a bank could then lend to itself as a corporation, with the near ZERO interest level, so as to allow it to invest and develop all manner of projects in commerce, however, in doing so, there would be NO insurance provided by the Federal Reserve, and the bank would be required to hold it’s own debt, at it’s own risk, where by if it’s investments suffer a great loss and lose the money, it is the bank which must eat the RISK, and absorb the loss, since the people cannot pay for risky investments by bankers in lending to themselves or other banks. Or provide the easy bankruptcy protections.
    Also, another benefit in this new lending, would be where the Banks, could operate without any risk in lending to businesses and Corporations (which are not owned by banks), and should a loan go bad, such as by a failing businesses, the banks could in this way suffer a zero loss and only loses the projected interest gains it would of made if the loan had remained good, and was paid off in full..
    Also the debt of these business loans could still be sold, and the buyer / investor would also be semi-free from the risk, as all loans to PERSONS, as a legal fiction such as Businesses and Corporations, would be insured by the non-profit Federal Reserve at 100% on the principle of the loan, but 0 % for the projected interest. Meaning for investors who buy such debts, the RISK is mostly to the level of profit to be gained by the interest over time, but also when buying such debt, they would be buying it at a price which is more than the principle, but less than the total value when paid off in full over time including interest, and the difference between the purchase price and the principle, would be part of their risk, and the total loss would include losing the profit gain which could of been made.
    And since as part of our government, the non-profit Federal Reserve, is the lender who would get paid in full when an investor buys the debted loan, the non-profit Federal Reserve would absorb no greater risk by continuing the insurance of it than if the loan had remained in the hands of the banks, and thereby can only suffer a loss when loans fail, and businesses go bankrupt, and since the Federal government would then also provide for the Bankruptcy laws and rules and courts, it is able to control its RISK, by always being able to investigate the details of bankruptcy, and business failure and prosecute fraud by both lenders and borrowers.
    And so, on the whole, the entire honest business community is also afforded vast protections, such that the overall risk to lenders and borrowers in Business loans, is reduced if not completely eliminated, and yet, in this same way, the punishment for fraud, by lenders and borrowers goes up, and would be considered as a crime against the American people, as tax payers, who are the owners of the Federal Reserve who suffered the loss by the fraud.
    And yet, since the loan and currency as the money itself, under this New Deal for 2012, is no longer based on Debt and Taxation, and is instead based on FAITH potential in the long term resource management of all the physical land mass of the nation, the burden, of the loss, is not imposed on the tax payer, and instead falls onto the burden of time, in paying off the FAITH based Treasury certificates, and as such, cases of fraud, and deliberate bankruptcy schemes, results in a loss of FAITH potential, due to the long term loss in the rate of payout by the Minerals and Energy production efforts of the Federal government run operations.

    c) Credit cards, is another area where we must distinguish between real human PEOPLE, and fictional PERSONS such as businesses and corporations. As under this New Deal for 2012, the imposing of insane interest rates on People who hold a balance must end, as it is the People who own the government, control it, make it up, and whom that government exists to serve, and as that government controls, creates and maintains the currency and economy, then it is all meant to serve those People, who are the basis of our society.
    In this way, the profit margin for issuing credit cards, should only be from the 2% charge to businesses who sell goods and services using credit cards, and the credit card issuers should by law, only be allowed to charge a preset limited fee and penalties per month for people who choose to hold a balance, and not impose a near 30% interest per month on all balances, because doing so, is enslaving the people to these endless debts, and the people suffer greatly for it.
    For example I would propose a set fee per month for holding a balance such as 10 Dollars, regardless of that balance, but also impose a much higher minimum payment to discourage people from running up a large debt in the first place. And then also Penalties per month for failing to pay that minimum payment, but this total amount in the worst case scenario would be much less than the imposed near 30% per month interest presently being charged.
    Besides, the fact of the matter is, Credit Card companies do not lend any actual money and only middleman a transaction between the people and the Federal Reserve, and by this New Deal of 2012, the credit card company would be freed of the RISK of loss should the People fail to pay their debts, and such issues would be between the government and the People, and the government need not ever profit off of the People. (But it can demand payment!)
    However, when issuing a credit card to businesses and Corporations, it would be acceptable to charge an interest rate on balances, but even still, those rates should be much lower than they presently are, since again, the Federal Reserve can provide the loans, and credit at near zero interest rates, so that there is no need for excessive interest, and that overall rate can be set to about 7% for all balances, for all businesses who use credit cards and choose to hold a balance, and this lower preset rate, would allow for greater spending by business which will boost the profit margin of credit card issuers who charge that 2% to businesses for accepting the credit cards.
    Again, by eliminating the RISK for credit card issuers, they should accept the preset limits on their profits, as they actually have no risk.

    It is therefore a benefit to the Bankers and the People, to adopt this New Deal for 2012, because it will reduce the debt of taxation, the burden of excess interest in lending, and eliminate the risk for those Bankers, and the boom in productivity will be directly proportional to that reduction as the burden of debt, and limits in lending capacity which has crippled our society here in 2009 / 2010. Where the real key part Bankers need to understand, is that this New Deal for 2012, would eliminate their RISK, and serve to expand the free market with leaps and bounds, and there would never be a shortage of capital again, as long as Bankers, give up Usury lending to People, and allow for preset rates on loans and credit cards. And the debt of inflation is ended, and excess income taxation is reduced allowing for the People to keep more of their money, and be secure in owning their property

    4) Global expansion :
    As described here..CURRENCY : THE MONEY SYSTEM
    We set the value of the new FAITH note treasury certificates to not one metal or commodity but to several and possibly all of them, and peg the notes to specific mass units of relative metals, where by upon payment or exchange of the Treasury note for the Commodity the note is always traded for which ever commodity has the most value, where by if Helium 3 is a listed commodity for trade of a FAITH note, and Helium 3 goes down in value, the holder of the note does not loose value, because the values of the other metals listed as tradable for it, go up in relative value in units of mass. In this way, we need not control the free market exchange of commodities, and simply promise to pay these FAITH notes off for the highest value of listed commodities, which, would also include units of energy. And it is not that the note MUST be traded for that specific commodity, but if for example, Helium 3 goes up in value, then due to the pegging of relative units, upon trading, if traded for Gold, the amount of Gold which will be paid out, is higher than the pegged mass unit of Gold listed, because of the rise in value of Helium 3, in relative trading, and this margin of value increase, would only be limited by preset value limits imposed by a Treasury stability committee.
    And the scale of trading and measures, between mass / units of commodities can be adjusted over time, by a government Treasury Stability Committee which serves this function, to maintain stability should any one commodity rise to much in value, or drop to worthlessness.
    And while some will argue that there is not enough Gold or Silver to re-value the Dollar, the beauty of this policy would be that the metals and commodities are in perfect storage in the ground, and can only be released slowly over time, as collected, which means the rate at which new commodities appear on the market is controlled, and no large investors can ever crash the system or devalue the Treasury notes or Dollars as happened in 1929, and payment while assured cannot be demanded at will, and no amount of commodity dumping can effect the value of these Multi-metal FAITH notes.
    These notes would be basically, fiat like, FAITH based, future obtainable commodity based security certificates backed by the full FAITH in the productive value of our lands, and our cooperative willingness to go and get those commodities. Hence they are termed as being, NON-transferable FAITH notes. Meaning that when our Treasury creates a new FAITH note, it is based on faith in the future values of commodities derived from our one nations soils, and must be paid off, by commodities derived from our one nation, as a means to back our nations individual currency, which in this way, is not inflationary, and does not impose a burden of debt on the tax payer, as fiat normally would. But with this FAITH note currency system, some of the same fiat tools can be used in trading them, such as electronic transfers, and producing these notes out of thin air, but in doing so, we are making a promise to provide the commodity over time to pay it, AND not income tax Dollars to pay a never ending debt of interest on a loan.
    Some will still argue that there are limits to the produceable values we can predict to generate per year, and so, we could not have complete stability since FAITH will vary, and will require proof of our nations working potential in developing the commodities and not just a promise, and the same thing would apply to any given nation who followed this currency and banking policy, and I propose to solve for this, by way of World Wide development efforts, and an interplanetary policy of investment which, would allow the markets to gain access to virtually unlimited amounts of capital to use, in building up the planet, and the stability would come from the commitment by our whole species to work together via a new U.N.F, to go and get those virtually endless resources of the Solar system as a whole.
    SEE => A message for all International Bankers, and investors of the Federal Reserve, World Bank, and IMF
    In this way, the re-organization of the U.N. and World Bank, and IMF can provide what are termed as TRANSFERABLE FAITH NOTES, which hold their value not on a promise to pay by a single given nation, but by a world wide promise to pay via a new United. Nations. Federation, which then uses these same policies to organize the World Bank and I.M.F, as non-profit parts of the World Treasury, which then makes it possible to manifest the FAITH potential of all international lands, such as the Ocean floors, and Antarctica, and in time, the Moon, Mars, and most importantly the Asteroid belt.
    The fact is, the Asteroid belt holds more wealth than the entire surface of our planet Earth, and using this FAITH based potential policy methods, we as a planet gain the instant credit to afford to be able to pay for the effort to go and get all those resources, by recognizing that the rewards and gains along the way, are so vast and huge in comparison to the costs, that there is no way to lose.

    But, as should be obvious, the only way to make this kind of world wide massive global investment, which can end all world poverty by employing all human kind in this work effort, is to end the debt and interest based fiat currency scheme being used today, by our nations Federal Reserve, and the World Bank, and I.M.F. As we could never afford the interest and we would choke on the debt before we could ever see a return, but by using debt free commodity based, FAITH based investment strategies, we could do almost anything, even if it takes 300 years, because as long as there is no major usury interest, then we could afford to do it all.

    5) It’s a good deal, take it and set my people free :
    I ask the Bankers, to realize the potential, of changing the ways of finance being used, and recognize that in doing so, and allowing for this massive global and interplanetary investment policy, that those Bankers would make thousands of times more money than they can by continuing the use of Usury fiat finance.
    I say set the people free of the debt, and we would be able to make use of the full work potential of our planets people and resources, and truly create a wonderful destiny and future for our species amongst the stars.

    I ask you all to have that vision, have that FAITH, and realize that what I propose to do, can allow it all to happen, and make money doing it.

    You must set the people free, because if not, in time they will rise, and blood will fill the streets, and it will be the fault of the leaders and Bankers, who lacked the vision to recognize a simple solution when it is handed to them.

    We dont need population control, or wars, or controlled diseases to keep the planet in check under the limited economics of today, and instead, we need a new economics which can allow us to make full use of our peoples potential.

    This is a much better plan, and I ask for your support.

    -Mosheh Thezion

Comments are closed.